Meet Steph Andrews

Maddie 0:00

My next guest is someone who has made it her life's work to give people the honest, shame-free education about pleasure, relationships, and identity that most of us never receive. She holds a master of sexology, an undergraduate degree in psychology and arts, and is currently studying to become a sexual health psychologist, which means the conversation you are about to have is grounded in both the science and deep human understanding of what it means to know yourself. She runs the Instagram Community Sexual Wellness Club. She works in sexual health promotion, an LGBTIQA plus community development, and has spent years translating complex, important ideas about pleasure and identity into language that actually reaches people. She is warm, she is an expert, and she is completely unbothered by the questions nobody else will answer. Steph Andrews, welcome to LitHERacy. Steph Andrews, welcome to LitHERacy.

Steph Andrews 0:57

Thanks for having me.

Maddie 0:57

Yeah, thanks so much for being here. So we asked all of our experts, um, what do you wish someone had told you when you were younger that had nothing to do with your field and everything to do with being a woman?

Steph Andrews 1:11

That when you think you're people pleasing, you're actually probably not pleasing that person.

Maddie 1:16

Oh.

Steph Andrews 1:18

Yeah, I think I know in my experience, it means more when people show up authentically and like are true to themselves and are honest about how they feel or what they want to do. Um, and I feel like you can kind of feel when someone is like not fully in it or not fully present or not fully wanting to be at that social event or do that activity. Um and I think it's just nicer if you're just honest in yourself.

Maddie 1:48

Yeah, and not telling you what you think you want to hear as well. Yeah. Um, I think that's I've never actually really thought about it from that perspective. But that's what a brilliant way to think about like people pleasing. Yeah.

Why Pleasure Gets Left Out of Sex Ed

Maddie 2:00

So I want to start with something that feels obvious as an adult, but I completely missed as a teenager. Sex ed. We got a really small amount of sex ed or health class in in secondary school. Um, but it taught us how to avoid pregnancies, STIs, STDs, which is incredibly useful, but it left out the part of whether any of it actually feels good for us. Why is that part left out for women?

Steph Andrews 2:26

I think with the sex education, if you were lucky enough to even receive it at school, um, it focuses on sex as uh a form of reproduction and a way to make babies. And there is a focus on risk of avoiding pregnancy, avoiding STIs, things like that. It doesn't just doesn't talk about the fact that sex can also be about pleasure, about connecting with someone, um, can be in relationships, can be by yourself, like the diversity of sexual experiences. It doesn't talk about. Um I think there are a few reasons for this. One reason is that I think we just learnt the information that we know about the clitoris, we learnt it much later than the penis, for example, and the male anatomy. So it was only, I think it was 1998 when there was research done that actually truly showed what the true clitoris looks like anatomically. Um like the penis has been studied for many years, um, but only in my lifetime have we found out what the true power and size of the clitoris is. So it's partly research being behind on like female bodies and anatomy. Um, but I don't know, I think it's also just normalisation of certain male sexuality in our cultures.

Five Power Facts About the Clitoris

Maddie 3:55

So I was gonna bring out these facts later in the show, but I think this is actually the perfect time. I got five power facts about the clitoris. Um the external shape of the clitoris, which is like the little button size that we see, is just the tip of the iceberg, let's say. Inside, the clitoris is 10 centimeters long. It's shaped like a wishbone with two legs that wrap around the vaginal opening, and it gets erect just like the penis when aroused. I didn't actually know that. But that's because the penis and the clitoris are from the same embryonic tissue, the exact same development until week nine when your hormone function kicks in, and then one develops into a penis and one develops into a clitoris, which is mind-boggling that that is not taught to us in school. And then the clitoris has 10,000 nerve endings, which is more than any structure in the human body. It has its own immune microbiome, its own dedicated pathway to the spinal cord, which is mind-blowing, and it but it has zero reproduction function, which we have found out, and that it exists solely for pleasure. Yes. And the male penis only has 4,000 nerve endings. So we've got more than double in just that one structure. And then my last fact that a clitoris doesn't shrink or appear with menopause, or just sorry, the clitoris does not shrink or disappear with menopause. It continues to grow throughout a woman's lifetime. Research shows that a clitoris of a woman who is 50 is bigger than that of 30, and that is bigger than a teenager. Wow. Excuse my language, but what a fucking incredible structure. It's so awesome. Why are women not taught this? I feel like that should be like 101 in health class. Like, bam, you're a woman. Here's what you got. This is gonna be a fun ride.

Steph Andrews 5:53

I feel like it almost would make us too powerful.

Maddie 5:56

You're probably totally right. You can't have all the power. It's not fair.

Steph Andrews 6:00

Like it's just crazy that we get to be the ones that have this structure that is purely for pleasure. Yeah. And we also have the reproductive one and like the vagina, and we have these other parts of our of our vulva and our anatomy. Um, so it's pretty powerful. It's pretty cool. Um, but it's pretty crazy that you know, people don't even know that the clitoris exists or the true function of it.

Maddie 6:25

Or that men aren't also taught about the power of the clitoris and how much enjoyment that women can get during sex and how fun it can be for both people.

Steph Andrews 6:38

Yeah.

Know Your Own Body First

Maddie 6:39

I I wish that was also in that. Um culture says masturbation is completely normal and acceptable for young boys. We've seen movies like There's Something About Mary, Super Bad, American Pie, they all made it, even Seinfeld episodes all made masturbation for men, completely normalized, and even gave it a comedic aspect to it. Um but when a woman wants to figure out her own body, it's somehow scandalous. Why is it important for women to get to know their own body before they have sex with someone else?

Steph Andrews 7:11

I think it's um empowering to be able to show someone what you like when um the time comes and you have sex with someone else. Um I think it's putting a lot of pressure on people to have to know what to do during sex. Um for example, it I think it's a little bit unfair to expect someone to know exactly how to bring you pleasure. I think pleasure is like your responsibility to a degree. Obviously, you want your partner to be able to want to give you pleasure. That's really important. Um, but to be able to communicate that to your partner. So I think it's important to explore your own body and figure out what type of touch feels good, what type of pressure feels good, like simulation feels stimulation feels good. Um to be able to, yeah, communicate that with your partner, um, show them what you like, also to be able to speak up about what doesn't feel good because bodies are so different, and what's gonna feel good for one person is not gonna feel as good for another person. Um I think it's easier to be able to say, This is not working for me, this doesn't feel good. If you can provide an alternative.

Maddie 8:26

Oh, good idea.

Steph Andrews 8:27

Yeah, I think it's nice to be like, you know, actually, can you go a little bit harder or can you go a little bit softer? Yeah. Rather than like just don't do that. No, that doesn't feel good. Stop. Yep, yep. It's not always natural for us to kind of communicate no's and stops as um as explicitly as that. Sometimes I think kind of we were talking about people pleasing earlier, but sometimes it feels more gentle or like realistic to kind of soften it and say, actually, I like this. Yep. It's also hot to hear um what people like, and it can be a turn on when you say, actually, I really want you to do this to me, or I really want to feel this here, that kind of thing. Yeah. Um, so I think it just adds to the mood and adds to the vibe and kind of brings in another layer of fun, pleasure, um, excitement if you're actually talking about it while you're doing it as well. Yeah. I know talking about it is not um natural for everyone. So other ways to kind of communicate that can be through body language as well, um, or like moving someone's hand somewhere, or like shuffling positions and things like that. Um, as long as you're yeah, checking in throughout throughout the process.

Clutch Your Pearls: The Vibrator Argument

Maddie 9:41

Yeah. I think in when I was younger, what I would have like I think both men and women, when you're younger, you're kind of fumbling through it, right? You don't know what you're doing, you don't know what the other person likes. So I think to be able to say, like, can you do it softer? I really like it softer. I think how helpful is that to the other person as well, to just be able to take direction. Because I think at the end of the day, we want the other, most people want the other person to also enjoy their experience sexually while you're together and not just go away feeling like they didn't know what they were doing and what a waste of time or any of those types of things. So I feel like I'm gonna say something very controversial. So clutch your pearls, Australia. I feel like women, when they're 14, 15, from trusted adults, parents, young women should be given a vibrator to experiment with their own body, to figure out what they like. And here's why. I think when you can know your own body, you can communicate with the other person. You can feel safe in a situation, but you can also feel when you're being ignored or when something is not safe. I think it gives you confidence to be able to say yes or no in a situation where you might be pressured. You can say, like, no, I don't want that, or yeah, I do want that. Um, so I think it gives women a bit more um not power, power isn't the right word. I think confidence in knowing their own bodies. And I know that's gonna be controversial, and I'm probably gonna get canceled for saying it, but I just think how much more useful it would have been to have gotten to know my own body and to then not have fumbled through those years. I think boys get to know their own body through masturbation, like you said, and it's very acceptable. But girls don't do that, or there's a lot of shame around pleasuring yourself or figuring out your own body or taking a mirror to your vulva and finding where your clitoris is or finding where other parts of your vulva is. So I think that's really important. Um, how does an adult approach that topic? Because, like you said, it can be a really awkward topic to have with your teenage daughter, your teenage son. How can what kind of tools can you give a safe adult to be able to give a young girl a vibrator?

Being the Safe Adult

Steph Andrews 12:18

Well, I was in a unique position where I worked at a vibrator company, so I found myself owning about 15 vibrators that I didn't need. So I went around gifting them to people.

Maddie 12:29

You're like the fairy vibrator Godmother that everyone wants.

Steph Andrews 12:33

But actually, um yeah, one young person in my life uh said no, they didn't want one. And I was kind of like, ah, as if, but you know, I respected their decision. Yeah. Um, and then it wasn't until like five years later that they were like, okay, I'm ready to buy one now. Do you have any advice? So it still opened up that kind of conversation for when they were ready, even though they weren't ready at the time. Yeah. Um, and so yeah, that was kind of me trying to show that I was a safe person to have that conversation with them.

Maddie 13:04

Good on you for giving them that safe space. That's amazing.

Steph Andrews 13:08

Thank you. Yeah. I think we get taught that like the birds and the bees chat is like this one-off chat with young people in our lives, but in reality, it is best done when it's an ongoing kind of conversation. I think using opportunistic moments, whether it's like, you know, a TV scene or something in the news that's happening or something online with like an influencer that they follow, something like that. Um, using that as a conversation.

Maddie 13:39

Yeah.

Steph Andrews 13:39

And then, you know, saying, hey, I saw Chantelle Otten was promoting this new vibrator. Do you follow her? What do you think? Kind of thing. Um, using like, yeah, online platforms that they're already engaging with. Um sometimes you might not feel comfortable to have that conversation yourself or recommend a vibrator yourself, but maybe you can like send them a podcast episode or you can send them a link that you saw online from like a trusted source or something like that. I think also something that's worked for me and my mom is like leading with vulnerability and kind of um almost speaking from the same page and speaking from experience, like rather than having a parental figure kind of tell you what you should do, saying something like, I wish I knew this when I was young, or when I was your age, this is actually what I really wanted, or this is what I wish I was, I could ask for, or what I was too afraid to ask for. So kind of coming in from the same level and being like, you know, I was a girl too, I was a teenager too, I'm a I'm a woman, like I'm still figuring myself out. Um kind of coming in from that angle.

Maddie 14:56

Um I also think that there's a piece of parents who don't want to think about their daughters having sex. And I think like parents need to take their head out of the sand and they need to understand like you were young once, you had hormones, you had sex. Your daughter is no different. Like she is your daughter, and she will always be your daughter. And the fact that she likes to have sex or she wants to have sex does not make her anything else but still your daughter. So, like sometimes I feel like buck up and help your daughter because you've either got a wife or you've got, and I guess I'm speaking directly to the dads on this one, um, but you've you've got a wife and you want her to have pleasure. So like you've got a daughter, help her have a better life. Moms, you've been there before, you've struggled to find pleasure in your life because every single one of us has trying to figure out our own bodies. So, like, help your daughter and give her this podcast episode too. Like, yes, it's gonna, if you're too awkward, if it's too embarrassing for you, if you just can't do it, totally fine. Give her this podcast. And I think you too, like meet them where they're at, find out what they're following, um, give them a recommendation. So, as far as vibrators, like what can a girl start with? Because we don't want her to start on something that's a too powerful or something that's not meant for anyone who's already been in the game for a long time. So, what can a young girl start with that isn't going to be too overwhelming for her?

Steph Andrews 16:38

I think the

A Beginner's Guide to Vibrators

Steph Andrews 16:40

best starting points are either a classic bullet vibrator or a palm vibrator.

Maddie 16:47

Oh, what's a palm vibrator?

Steph Andrews 16:49

So a palm vibrator, it's kind of um it's shaped to fit into your palm. Yeah. So it kind of cups the entire vulva area rather than like pinpointing on the clitoris or like, you know, going inside the vagina or something like that.

Maddie 17:04

Yeah.

Steph Andrews 17:04

Um, so it's more of like a broad sensation rather than lots of direct stimulation in one area.

Maddie 17:12

Yeah.

Steph Andrews 17:12

Um it's yeah, it's not as well known by name as like a bullet vibrator, but there's quite a few different like types out there. Um, but the thing about a bullet vibrator and a palm vibrator both are focusing on external stimulation, which I think is the most A, it's where most of the pleasure is found at the clitoris. But it's also kind of like a gentle starting point because it can be quite intimidating for people to like insert things inside the vagina and things like that. Fair enough. Um, so I would recommend starting with yeah, a bullet or a palm vibrator on the outside. There are also some toys that can go like internally and externally. So I guess they're just called kind of they're typically called G Spot vibrators, but they can be used externally as well.

Maddie 18:00

Yep.

Steph Andrews 18:00

Um, so something just kind of like slim and like non-complicated. You don't want it to be intimidating. You just want to be able to turn it on, have a couple of settings to play with, and just let it do its thing. Amazing. Um, I would recommend a bullet, a palm, or even a G-spot vibrator. I know some of the suction vibrators are quite popular. I think um they can be a bit confusing sometimes, but I've never heard of that. It's like, you know, the air suction kind of sensation. Yeah. Like the womanizer is a brand that's well known for it. Yeah. It's kind of like a pulsing air sensation. Yeah. Um, it's meant to mimic oral sex. Okay. So again, it's it's nice because it's like a kind of gentle sensation, but you kind of have to put it in exactly the right spot at exactly the right angle. Step two. So, yeah, I would say that's more of a step two.

Maddie 18:54

Yeah, fair enough. Um it sounds fun. Yeah. Great. We hear about the orgasm gap. What is it,

The Orgasm Gap

Maddie 19:02

and what does it tell us about the way that we've traditionally thought about sex?

Steph Andrews 19:06

So there's research been done on the orgasm gap, which exists between cisgender heterosexual men and women. So basically, long story short, is men orgasming more than women are orgasming in heterosexual sex. Um, so I'm sure anyone with anecdotal sexual experience with a man can say that pretty much most of the time the man orgasms, if you're lucky, the woman orgasms. Um it's basically a term that's used to represent that imbalance and that mismatch between the number of orgasms that partners are having. Yeah. Um, and there's a number of reasons why it happens, but it kind of shows that we've normalized heterosexual sex to the point where men come all the time and women are lucky if they come, or you know, a man is a good lover if he makes a woman come when in reality everyone deserves to come if they want to every time. And it's possible to do that. It's not some crazy magical, yeah, like, you know, doesn't just happen because of luck. It's like something that you can make happen if you want to. Yes. Um, with the right skills and the right supportive environment.

Maddie 20:22

Yep.

Steph Andrews 20:22

Um so yeah, it's kind of just shown us that the female orgasm is not as important, essentially.

Maddie 20:31

which is a shame.

Steph Andrews 20:33

Yeah.

Maddie 20:34

And it's a pity for us that that has been the conversation up until now. Hopefully, it's changing a little bit.

Steph Andrews 20:40

It's if you think about it, like a lot of heterosexual sex is centred around the male orgasm in general. Like it typically ends when the man orgasms, or um, if people say, you know, we had sex twice, that typically refers to the man orgasming twice. Yeah. Um and I know there's some elements of like for some people it's hard to keep going after they orgasm, but there should be a priority for everyone to enjoy themselves and and orgasms.

Maddie 21:09

So if you know that sex stops when he comes, make sure she gets she gets in there first, I think. So the stat on the SASH survey, the sexual health survey that came out said 95% of heterosexual men usually or always orgasm during sex, and 65% of heterosexual women do. But lesbian women came in at 86%. So same body, different outcome. The gap isn't the anatomy. So what is the gap? Is it education with men? I don't want to put the blame solely on men because we also have a responsibility to know our own body. And if that is what it takes for us to orgasm, like should we be initiating it ourselves? Like, don't necessarily Rely on the man or tell him this is what I like, or if you're not going to do it, I also want to enjoy this experience.

Steph Andrews 22:08

Yeah, I think everyone is responsible. I think it's one thing for us to know how our body works and um be able to communicate that, but really your partner should be um wanting that for you as well. Yeah. And like trying to make that happen. I think part of what's responsible here is like there's something called sexual scripts and like the routine of sex and what is kind of the standard sexual activities that you do during sex. And I think between a man and a between a man and a woman, um, you know, penetration is often the main kind of event during sex. And that's not the way that typically a woman is gonna orgasm because you know, the vagina it can be very pleasurable, but we know that most of the pleasure comes from the clitoris. So internal penetration and like what we typically think of as sex is not actually that likely to lead to an orgasm for a woman or a female body. Um, so I think partly it is the type of sex that men and women are most commonly having, which is penetration, not likely to lead to an orgasm for a woman, but it is likely to lead to an orgasm for a man. So obviously there's a bit of an imbalance there. Um I think also with like queer sex and like two women together or two people with female bodies, you have to be a bit more creative in how you do things, and there's lots of different activities that are involved, lots of different positions. Um, and it kind of just naturally leads to a lot more clitoral stimulation. Um so I think the more everyone gets creative with the type of sex that they're having and like explores different positions and activities, um, the more likely we are to kind of close that orgasm gap between men and women. Yep. Um and the more fun we're gonna have because it's more fun when you do different things and try out different positions and get creative and explore rather than doing the same kind of thing over and over.

Maddie 24:12

Yeah.

Steph Andrews 24:12

Um, especially if it's not leading to orgasm.

Maddie 24:15

Yeah. So I've

The G-Spot, Finally Explained

Maddie 24:16

got some stats on vaginal penetration, but I also wanted to talk about what you just said right there about I want to talk about the G spot for a second. And this obviously it's not a myth, or maybe it is a myth. Maybe you can clarify this for me, because I still don't know. I heard about the G spot, people would bang on about it, no pun intended, but they would go on and on about how you have to hit the G-spot for an internal orgasm. But what we know about the clitoris now is that it's wishbone-shaped, right? So if your vagina is here, it comes around wishbone-shaped, but the G spot is in a different area. So can you walk us through that anatomy just a little bit?

Steph Andrews 24:57

Yes. So my understanding is that the G-spot is less of a spot and more of a zone that is kind of like the back of where the clitoral legs are kind of hitting. Okay. So it's all coming back to that internal structure of the clitoris. Yeah. So it's not just this magical spot like behind the vagina or something. Yeah. It's all like the clitoral nerve endings and like, as you said, like the clitoris wrapping around the vagina. Yeah. Um it's all involved. It's all involved. It's all coming back to the clitoris. Yeah. And it's more of just like if the clitoris is really um engorged and like turned on and aroused, then there's more of a kind of zone that is likely to be orgasmic, if that makes sense.

Maddie 25:47

Yeah, well, 10 centimetres. Yeah. That's there's not a lot of space down there, and that's a decent amount that would wrap around. Yeah. That makes thank you for explaining that to me. Um so 18% of women said that vaginal penetration alone was sufficient enough for orgasm, but 75% reported clitoral stimulation was either necessary or made things significantly better. The entire cultural script presents penetration, as you said, as the main event, and um everything else is kind of the warm-up, which we know because five out of six girls are saying that because they can't have an orgasm, they feel like they're broken. But we know that they're not broken, that they've just been handed the wrong script. What does the right script for them say?

Steph Andrews 26:36

Yeah, I think it's just what you said that the clitoris is the most likely route to orgasm kind of thing. So you can't be expecting this to happen from just penetration or internal stimulation alone. It's, you know, it is possible because of what we just talked about with how the clitoris gets engorged and things like that. Um but not many people are doing it. So undo that idea that you learnt from porn or whatever it is that wherever you learnt that, yeah. Um, it's not really happening that much. Yeah. Um so don't worry. Yeah. That's not happening for you. Um You're not broken. No.

Maddie 27:18

I guess I want girls to know that like it took me a very long

Porn Is the Wrong Teacher

Maddie 27:23

time to figure that out. And I think now that what we've seen from this survey as well, that porn young girls and boys are being first exposed to porn at 11 years old and 13 years old. And that is really early. And that is probably before a majority of their sex ed at school. So, how unrealistic is that as an educational source for young women when they're seeing all that kind of stuff? And it's I haven't watched porn in a while, but from what I've gathered and talking to other people um in this field, it's quite violent now as well. So, how is that helpful to young boys and girls setting themselves up?

Steph Andrews 28:12

I think porn itself is not inherently bad, but the type that we're so easily exposed to and can access so easily is not a realistic portrayal of how sex happens in real life and it shouldn't be used as sex education. Yeah. But people don't know where else to go. So, you know, people want a practical video, like that's how we learn. Um, but yeah, the type of porn that is created and easily accessible on mainstream websites is not realistic and shouldn't be used in that way.

Maddie 28:43

Yeah.

Steph Andrews 28:44

Um, it's not a realistic depiction of how to get pleasure, as we've spoken about. It's often like focused on penetration. Um, it's also not a realistic depiction of what pleasure actually looks like. Often, like women in porn are like super loud, sometimes like crying from how insane the pleasure is and like really, really over-exaggerating. That is not what it looks like in real life. It's not. Um, no one has to be that loud or make any sort of noise if they don't want to. It just really sets us up to think A, that things are gonna be so much more explosive and magical and like otherworldly when in reality we're all fumbling and feeling awkward and feeling insecure, and our bodies are making strange noises that we don't expect and all sorts of things. So it's just not a realistic depiction. Um, I think the violence that you touched on is really important to mention because certain activities that can be done safely with consent, with like BDSM, for example, um, are kind of just shown in mainstream porn without any discussion, without any clear consent. And it leads people to um act that out in real life without checking for consent, like things like choking, spitting, hitting, things like that. The average person, it cannot be assumed that the average person wants to do that. So when we're seeing that in porn, we have to know that consent has been given in that situation and consent needs to be given in real life, because not everyone is is down for that. Um, so yeah, the normalisation of violence through porn is really tricky because obviously, yeah, people can explore certain things in a safe environment with someone they trust, but we should never expect that people will be okay with that, especially the first time they're having sex with someone. Oh my god, kids. Um yeah, and honestly, anecdotally, like it is happening. Like boys are, you know, engaging in these sorts of more violent things without getting consent. And, you know, I know that from me and my friends sharing stories, but um, it's not okay. And I want young girls to know that that's not a part of sex that you just have to put up with. Um, it's okay to say, hey, I'm actually not into that. I prefer if we go slow or we, you know, we're a bit more gentle, or, you know, I prefer if we're in a relationship. Whatever your boundary is, whatever you're comfortable with, that's okay. Um yeah, I think sometimes boys are just acting out what they've seen in porn. And, you know, they're not doing it out of malicious intent. They just probably think that's what girls like because that's what they've seen in the videos. So yeah. Um yeah, I think it's really dangerous. And it's dangerous. Yeah. That's why I talk a lot about consent needing to be specific to each activity. So that's great. You can yeah, consent to have sex with someone, obviously, but you need to actually decide together what activities you want to do together, whether it's just oral sex or whether it's penetration, but only in this position, or things like that. Yeah, you can want to have sex with someone and still say no to being choked or whatever you're not comfortable with. Yeah.

Maddie 32:08

And I want the girls in the back to hear that, like you, the persuasive sex,

Getting Out of Your Head

Maddie 32:14

the men pushing you down, like you get to say no to all of that. Like, that is your right as a woman. You don't have to go along with any of it. And um, if their your partner for whatever reason is doing something you are not okay with, you stop it right then and there. Yeah, I think that's incredibly important. The research calls it spectatoring, um, which is watching yourself the whole time. How does a girl get in her head and how does she get out of her own way in that type of scenario?

Steph Andrews 32:48

Yeah, so spectatoring can be when you're kind of focusing too much on what you might look like during sex rather than how you might feel. Um, so yeah, you know, there have been times where I or my friends have kind of imagined from a bird's eye view like what this would look like, and like, you know, focused on what angles we should be at, or like whether we should be, you know, accentuating certain features and things like that when you're hot either way, even if you have all the belly rolls and all the things that you're insecure about, it's a hot environment. You don't need to worry about being sexy, it's a naturally sexy environment. Um, I think the main way to kind of get out of your head if you're worrying about certain things and how you look is to really tune into your body and focus on how you feel. Tune into your senses. Um, you know, if you're receiving something, think where can I feel this? Like, how can I relax more? What would make me more comfortable? Yeah. Maybe you're feeling a bit like tense or like you're having to hold your body in a certain position. It's okay to be like, hey, do you mind if we put a pillow here just so I can really relax and like really enjoy?

Maddie 34:04

Yeah.

Steph Andrews 34:05

Um yeah, I think mindfulness should be a big part of sex. I think it's really hard to relax in general, let alone in kind of an anxiety-inducing like sexual environment. Um, but the more that we try and tune into our breath or relax our body and things like that, the more pleasure we're gonna feel.

Maddie 34:26

Yeah.

Steph Andrews 34:27

Um, breath, I think, is a really important part of like getting out of your head and enjoying more pleasure during sex. Um, slowing things down with your breath or even speeding things up when like, you know, things are feeling heightened, things like that can really help people feel good. Um, yeah, kind of breathing in rhythm of the sexual activity, I think, can be a nice way to enjoy and feel more in the moment because that's kind of the goal of what we want is for you to feel present, connected with the person, um, feeling in the moment rather than worrying during sex. Yeah. Even though that's completely normal and natural.

Maddie 35:07

Yeah, and not having to worry about, like you said, putting on a performance. It doesn't need to be a performance, nobody nobody's watching you. Yeah. Um so I think that's those are all really great, um, really great options for girls. The question that I struggle with the most and I most wanted answered in my 20s is was am I doing any of this right? I always felt like I'm doing it wrong. Um, all those types of things. What would you say to that kind of girl?

Steph Andrews 35:38

There is no way to do it right, first of all. You're not doing anything wrong.

"Am I Doing This Right?"

Steph Andrews 35:43

Um, one thing that I think really helped me, because I've struggled with this as well, um, is basically treating each sexual experience or each new partner as if it's the first time you're having sex anyway, because because each person is different, you do have to take some time to figure out what they like and what you guys might want to do together. So essentially every time you have sex with someone new, it's like the first time you're having sex anyway. So there's no way to just know exactly what you're doing and, you know, do it 100% right because everyone likes different things. Everyone's bodies like fit together in different ways as well. So it might take a while to figure out what positions suit you and the person that you're currently having sex with or yeah, who wants to give, who wants to receive, in what way, that kind of thing. So yeah, we want to be taking the pressure off doing things right. There obviously are certain techniques that you can learn. And if you are genuinely like, you know, I don't know how to go down on someone. You know, there are some educational um materials that you can use. And there's actually a resource called um OMGYes. I don't know if you've heard of this.

Maddie 36:58

Yes. Yeah. I have. I used to have a subscription. Yeah. It's amazing. It's an amazing thing for women. Can you tell us about it?

Steph Andrews 37:05

Yeah. Those of us who don't know. Actually, speaking of parents, my mom and I shared an account to OMGYes. Amazing.

Maddie 37:13

I love that.

Steph Andrews 37:14

An educational platform on basically how the female anatomy works and like different techniques that um can bring pleasure and literally like videos and instructions on how to do it. But it's not porn. It's not a sexual video. It's literally kind of instructional. Um, so exactly the type of education that people want. They want to know, you know, how much pressure to apply, what technique to do, that kind of thing. Um, but yeah, they want to learn about it rather than having to experience it on the go.

Maddie 37:47

Yeah. And I learned so many things as an adult that I still didn't know from the website. It was, it's, I cannot say enough about how supportive, how educational, how um positive thinking. And you see women of all different shapes and sizes, and I loved that too. There's representation from everywhere so that people know, like, no matter who you are and what your body is, like, you're beautiful and you're a woman, and we're here to support you through learning all this type of stuff. I'm so glad that you brought that up. I never even thought to bring that up, but um yeah, um, what a great resource for women. Do you have any other resources for women?

Steph Andrews 38:27

Um, there's also a book called Come As You Are. Have you heard of this? By Emily Nagoski. Um, it's basically about the female orgasm and like um kind of response, sexual response cycles, and like whether your desire might be in response to certain things or whether it just spontaneously appears. So it's a great book to learn more about the science of like orgasming um if you're struggling or you just want to learn more about it.

Maddie 38:59

Yeah.

Steph Andrews 38:59

Um, it would also be a good book for partners of women to read to learn more about their orgasm.

Maddie 39:05

Um, what role does feeling emotionally and physically safe play in experiencing pleasure?

Safety Is the Whole Game

Steph Andrews 39:11

I think the most important role. Um the World Health Organization actually defines sexual health not just as like physical safety, but psychological and social and mental safety as well. So it's literally fundamental to sexual health and pleasure. Um it is really hard to experience pleasure if you're in an anxious or like unsafe state. Yeah. Just in day-to-day life, that's true as well. Um, but especially in sex, your kind of pelvic muscles can be um, like your pelvic muscles might tighten and things like that and tense up if you're not relaxed. So it that just makes it a lot harder to receive any sort of um sexual activity or pleasure, more painful. Yeah. Um, a lot of kind of sexual dysfunction and like when things are kind of going wrong medically, for example, like vaginismus or um, you know, an inability to orgasm things like that, there often are large psychological kind of elements behind that. Um, and a lot of the treatment for those things in combination with maybe pelvic floor physio is also like working on psychological safety and unpacking some of the shame that people have or some of the fear that they have from past bad experiences and all of those things can come up, and it's natural for those things to come up. Um, but yeah, I think part of being a good sexual partner is helping your sexual partner to relax and feel comfortable and setting a safe environment for them and doing whatever they need to feel more comfortable, whether it's locking the door because you have kids running around the house or putting some music on because you're worried about your housemates hearing, or things like that. All of these things can really help someone relax and just feel more comfortable to enjoy sex and actually feel good.

Maddie 41:20

I feel like throughout this whole episode, you have brought it back

How to Actually Have the Conversation

Maddie 41:26

time and time again to communicating with your partner and being able to have what could be an awkward conversation, um, but having it because you want both people to enjoy it or you want your partner to be calm and in the moment and enjoying everything. And I think that is such an important connection to make uh for young women that and young men that you can have that conversation before you have sex or before you get started. And it doesn't make it any less sexy. In fact, I would argue it makes it even more sexy because you know it's coming, but you don't know when it's coming, and you feel safe and you feel looked after. And I think that is what is the most sexy before. And that I think if a woman feels sexy, she's going to get to that place of pleasure quicker than if she has the insecurities, if she's not sure what's coming, or if someone chokes her and she hasn't already given consent to that. I think like those like you've got two very different roads there and two very different experiences. And I think the goal that I would like to get, and I'm sure you would like to get across, is that you want you the take the path with the communication, with the comfort, with the safety, um, and just have that conversation. Like you're you're an adult, if you're old enough to have sex, you're old enough to have that conversation with your partner and make sure that both of you are on the same page about that.

Steph Andrews 42:54

Yeah. And I think there's like sexual and non-sexual ways to go about that conversation.

Maddie 43:00

Yeah.

Steph Andrews 43:00

If it's easier for you, you can kind of subtly give them some feedback if you're already online sexting with them. Like if you're sending fun, flirty messages, you can kind of weave in your likes or you can weave in like that was really good last night. It would be even better if we did this. Yeah. That kind of thing. So you can give them feedback in like a sexy way, or um, yeah, whatever feels like fun and exciting to you. But I also think there's room for all of us to be able to talk about sex in a non-sexual environment as well, and just keep it kind of objective and like yeah, not erotic, I suppose. So you can, like when you're doing the dishes or when you're going for a walk or on the bus home or something like that. Maybe not on the bus, maybe not in public. But um maybe, I don't know. If you're into that, like just normalize, you know, being able to say, hey, you know, last night I was just Bit worried about someone walking in and like it just made me feel a little bit on edge, but other than that, had a really good time. Like it doesn't have to be this kind of very sexual conversation. I think that also applies to like adults talking about sex with young people. Like it's not an inherently sexual thing to do. Like you're not sexualizing that young person in an inappropriate way. You're trying to give them objective information and like evidence-based information and open up the space to talk about these things. Yeah. It doesn't always have to feel like it's overly sexual, if that makes sense.

Maddie 44:37

It 100% makes sense. It makes sex. 100% makes sense.

Questions From the Panel

Maddie 44:43

I'm with you. On that note, we're gonna take, we've got some questions from the panel. Um if can you get desensitized from using a vibrator too much? Because I've heard that and now I'm scared.

Steph Andrews 44:56

No. Um you're not gonna like burn off your clitoral nerves or anything like that. You've got 10,000 of them. Yeah, you've got plenty to spare. Um It's normal to be using a vibrator and maybe like feeling a bit numb in the moment because there's been too much sensation in that area, but it's not going away forever. You might just need to switch things up. Um so more gently. Yes. Yeah. Um so just take a break and come back to it. You're not gonna desensitise anything forever.

Maddie 45:26

Right.

Steph Andrews 45:27

Um, but yeah, switch it up and come back to it.

Maddie 45:29

Yeah, cool. Um, if I don't have an orgasm, does that mean I never will?

Steph Andrews 45:34

No. You can always learn how to have an orgasm. I'm a sexologist and it still took me years.

Maddie 45:39

Yeah. Good. That's really important for young women to know. Yeah. Thanks for that. Um, I always make sure he's happy, but I don't think he's ever asked if I am. Is that just how it is?

Steph Andrews 45:50

No, you deserve more than that. Um yeah, we don't have to accept always looking out for other people. We deserve for them to be looking out for us as well. Um, but as we said, there's a lot of different messages that we get in society where that's normalized. So, you know, it's not that he's an awful person for not caring. It's just that he might need a little bit of extra education to kind of get to that point. Yep.

Maddie 46:17

Um goes back to that communication piece, doesn't it?

Steph Andrews 46:19

Mm-hmm.

Maddie 46:20

Yeah. Um, so we're gonna play rapid fire. Your options are yes, no, or it's complicated.

Rapid Fire and One Last Lesson

Steph Andrews 46:26

Okay.

Maddie 46:26

Feel free to expand on the it's complicated. Is pleasure an important part of sexual health? Yes. Porn is sex ed.

Steph Andrews 46:35

No.

Maddie 46:36

Understanding your own body can improve communication.

Steph Andrews 46:39

Yes.

Maddie 46:40

Can people pleasing affect intimacy?

Steph Andrews 46:44

Yes.

Maddie 46:45

Sex toys are for single people.

Steph Andrews 46:47

No.

Maddie 46:47

That's a hard no.

Steph Andrews 46:48

Not just single people.

Maddie 46:50

Yeah. That's a good one. You can be too young to know your own body?

Steph Andrews 46:54

No.

Maddie 46:55

It's is embarrassment one barrier to good sexual health?

Steph Andrews 46:59

Yes, absolutely.

Maddie 47:01

The clitoris exists solely for pleasure?

Steph Andrews 47:03

Yes.

Maddie 47:04

Hell yes. Pleasure is a feminist issue?

Steph Andrews 47:07

Yes.

Maddie 47:09

Is emotional safety as important as physical safety?

Steph Andrews 47:13

I think it's more, so it's complicated.

Maddie 47:16

Yeah. That's all right. Should every young woman know that her comfort matters?

Steph Andrews 47:21

Yes, absolutely.

Maddie 47:22

Um, and our last question: if you could go back and tell your teenage self one thing about this topic, what would it be and how long did it take you to learn it?

Steph Andrews 47:30

It would be that you don't have to have it all figured out. Um think when I first discovered pleasure and the clitoris and all these things and looked into it a bit more. I thought, okay, cool, now I know everything. Now I know exactly how to get myself off and I'm sorted. But things change, your body changes, your relationship changes, the way you have sex changes. Um, it's okay to just keep learning about yourself and learning what feels good for you and learning what types of people you like. Like I am still learning about my sexuality and who I want to be with and that sort of thing. So you don't have to have it figured out straight away.

Maddie 48:15

Yep.

Steph Andrews 48:16

Um, and it's constantly learning and also unlearning certain things.

Maddie 48:21

Yeah, good point.

Steph Andrews 48:22

Yeah, I think I just want people to know you don't have to have all the answers, and you also don't have to be set in your ways or your decision of who or what you like.

Maddie 48:32

Be open-minded about it.

Steph Andrews 48:34

Yeah. Yeah. Sexuality just naturally changes over time, like our hormones change, our bodies change. It's all you're gonna go through phases.

Maddie 48:44

That's a great one. Um, thank you so much for being here. Will you come back and talk to us next season about sex toys?

Steph Andrews 48:52

Sure.

Maddie 48:52

Amazing. Thank you again for coming. I had so much fun.

Steph Andrews 48:55

Thanks. Thanks for having me.

Maddie 49:02

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